Ranger P71 Project: Slight Problem and Input Sought

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 01/07/2020 at 14:37 • Filed to: None

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The plan was to use a plasma cutter and a shoe horn and install the Vic’s modular 4.6 engine/trans in the Ranger, but it turns out that the 4.6 if four feet wide and the Ranger’s engine bay is only three feet wide. A more clever lad than I would have learnt this out before buying the Vic. But at 42,000 miles and $1,300, I pounced. And now I am fighting a case of buyer’s remorse... (I listed the Vic on CL and have had five inquiries, all scammers...)

Anywho, the cool guy I bought the Vic from suggested placing the Ranger’s body atop the Vic frame. I think that idea might not be without merit. What do you think? It would be potentially easier, I think, than doing an engine/trans swap.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 14:41

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Ranger on Vic wouldn’t work. As I figure it, the width’s aren’t the same. The front would look all weird and you would have the same issue of the engine having to fit the engine between the fenders of the Ranger.

What about cutting out the inner fenders on the Ranger?

CalzoneGolem > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 14:45

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Hot R od G arage did something similar with their Crown Hick. Those videos might give you an idea of what goes into it. They use a different Ford truck.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 14:48

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Do you use facebook? I stopped trying to buy/sell stuff on CL a while ago. Marketplace has been much easier.

Ranger on Vic frame would be cool. I know it’s a somewhat common swap for unibody F100s.

diplodicus forgot his password > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 14:51

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https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/index.php?threads/4-6-swap-tutorial.139482/

looks like its been done on a second gen. Might be able to do it with a lot of work

I bet a 2.3L ecoboost from a mustang would fit easier but that’s a pricier engine transmission combo.

Jim Spanfeller > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 14:53

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I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the show Hot Rod Garage, but there was an episode where they put the body of an old Ford F100 on a Crown Vic chassis. I imagine you could do the same thing with a ranger body, and that’s be a pretty interesting project. I say go for it!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:03

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Item 1: you probably don’t need the fender liners in their original configuration. Unlike a unibody, they’re not really structural. If the frame and front suspension are part of the issue too, forget I said anything. Vickie trans will likely fit into Ranger just fine whether Ranger body is on stock frame or not.

Item 2: Ranger onto Vic will leave you off on wheelbase by 7". The frame and rear suspension don’t offer a lot of way to resolve that by moving. If you built a 7" toolbox behind the cab, it could work, but fitting the cab and bed to the Vickie frame would already likely be a lot of work. Different mount points, different width in different areas, different contours of the frame rails up and down...

Item 3: Stock track width is different between a Ranger and a Vickie by 10". That’s... quite a bit. I wouldn’t assume it would cause problems except that the ride height would be so much lower, and the Vickie’s wheels are already high backspace. This would be compensated for by the however much the Ranger body would likely end up higher just getting mated to a dissimilar frame, but still.

Bottom line: it’s doable, but there are significant challenges. Swap is likely still easier.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > CalzoneGolem 01/07/2020 at 15:05

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Yes! I watched that episode with great interest, though that’s more truck than my Ranger. I think they also installed a premium stainless steel exhaust...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > diplodicus forgot his password 01/07/2020 at 15:06

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Yeah. The Vic with 42k miles was $1,300, a pretty good buy.

CalzoneGolem > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:08

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Yeah they go above and beyond usually. How much larger is their truck to your ranger? I’m guessing significantly wider?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Jim Spanfeller 01/07/2020 at 15:08

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Yes, I am an avid MOTD viewer of HRG and RK and RKG and those shows fill my head with lots of impractical ideas. But that truck on that episode is much more vehicle than I want. Also, the Vic’s wheel base is probably 4 inches wider than the Ranger’s.

Jim Spanfeller > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:11

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Solution: Widebody R anger!

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:11

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Full size Ford on Crown Vic works but that first gen ranger is just too small. Those modular motors are gigantic.

Even a 302 V8 is a tight fit in those.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/07/2020 at 15:15

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The Vic is about the size of the Millenium Falcon. The Ranger is likely much narrower. The Ranger has the club cab, but might be the same frame length as a long bed standard Ranger. It’s just a bunch of ridiculous ideas. My friend suggested putting engine/trans Rusty... He also says he has an old 327 lying around somewhere...

My understanding is that the 4.6 exhaust manifold outlets sit right on the Ranger frame and become ersatz engine mounts.

The good news is I’m only out $1,300 and it’s a solid roller/driver.

Maybe a ‘78 Ford Fairmont wagon body on the Vic chassis...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer 01/07/2020 at 15:17

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All of which would have been easy for me to discover ahead of buying the Vic. But the 90-mile thunder run home was a blast. I’m glad I’m only out $1,300 on a solid roller/driver with low miles.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Jim Spanfeller 01/07/2020 at 15:17

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Cut it down the middle with a Sawsall and migweld in a strip of sheet metal.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/07/2020 at 15:23

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Thank you for the FB tip; I’ll check that out. I’ve always enjoyed using Craigslist, but the scammers are crowding the place. And it’s $5 now to list a car...

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:24

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$1300 for a crown Vic in decent shape isn’t bad at all. They’re a hoot to drive for sure.

Ranger engine swaps are tough. There isn’t much out there without going full custom. Ford hasn’t made an engine that was the same block as that 2.9 since the late 90s (the 4.0 OHV)

I’ve lately been thinking of finding something small like a ranger and putting a rotary  in there. Definitely a recipe for heartbreak but rotaries have been getting some love lately in the aftermarket and custom scene.

Thisismydisplayname > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:24

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One of the spike tv car shows shoe horned a modular v8 into a second gen ranger (well whatever the Mazda version was) and it did fit.  Life has been said, the fender liners could go out of the ranger.  And what about grafting the front clip from the crown Vic to the ranger and then do the same with the rear section, then make up the delta with a shorter driveshaft.  Wide body ranger.  

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:29

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I think you could do some junkyard diving and get the car body into a better condition. You’ll need a left fender, hood  and header panel at the very least. At worst, also the interior core support and possibly the radiator assembly. The damage I’m seeing on your Vic is less than what I suffered from a flatbed trailer a year or so ago. (The radiator crossmember, core support, and radiator assembly got damaged.)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer 01/07/2020 at 15:33

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This ‘88 is available. Where are you located?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:37

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Yeah... I had my Jetta listed there for a month, no real hits. It was gone in a week with facebook. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Thisismydisplayname 01/07/2020 at 15:37

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Looking at options. I think the Vic was a good buy, but too hasty. I don’t want a full size pickup because it’s just more steel than I want to haul around. Unless it was one of the flimsy ones from the early 80s... But then I’m buying ANOTHER vehicle... Best would be just to resell the Vic and stick with GM because I’ve always been a Chevy man anyway. This is a different conversation, but it’s too bad GM bailed from the 9C1 in ‘96. A great loss.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/07/2020 at 15:39

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Yes, but I have ZERO interest in driving a Crown Vic, unless it’s re-engined into something else. Those cars are so blah, so freaking BIG, so common, so underpowered for their weight and size. Yet bulletproof, robust and dependable.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/07/2020 at 15:40

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I’ll check into it. Appreesh the tip!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:40

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Unfortunate that it’s not a tried and true swap like putting an SBC into an S10. Which is tried and true to the point that one can buy shortie manifolds built for the express purpose of the swap from multiple suppliers.

The outlets on standard 4.6 manifolds are positioned very similarly to those on a Windsor, but may land just a touch wider. The bulk of the extra width is above that, but I think not all. Certainly no less narrow than a 351, with its higher deck height than a 289/302, which others were saying is a tight fit.

The easy swap is, of course, to use an Explorer 5.0 donor and use a “modernized” 302 instead of the modular. Which might be the thing to do *and* the ‘78 wagon idea.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/07/2020 at 15:45

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Yeah. The Vic was a hasty buy. Fun, but hasty. I’d like to just resell it. My friend gave  me the Ranger, which started all of this. I’ve always been a GM man anyhow. The friend who gave me the Ranger also might have a 327 SBC sitting around... With a Turbohydramatic 350, Rusty could be a drift missile...

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:46

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Bulletproof, robust, dependable. What else do you need?

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:47

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Ha!

Sorry, I’m selling off projects at the moment. Also I'm in Missouri and seeing that California plate on the ranger makes me think you’re a long way away from me.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/07/2020 at 15:50

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I loathe Facebook and it has been where my last 3 cars sold, it’s worth it. I would think the Ranger body onto the crown Vic frame would be the easiest/best. Bonus all the structural metal would be newer too. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/07/2020 at 15:50

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Not a Ford?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jminer 01/07/2020 at 15:51

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You could probably have the ‘88 for free if you wanted to retrieve it.

Sovande > NKato 01/07/2020 at 15:53

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Apparently he needs something less blah, less huge, less common and with a better weight to power ratio.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:53

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The philosophical approach would be to see if the steering box in a Ranger is in the same place as an S10 due to similar place in life, and whether that would further using S10 swap SBC manifolds to enable putting in an SBC.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > NKato 01/07/2020 at 15:54

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A manual transmission. Only reason I don’t own a crown Vic or a charger. They’re also pretty thirsty for how slow they are

NKato > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 01/07/2020 at 15:56

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There are manual swap kits available at ADTR.net, which will make it a lot easier. 5 speed and six speed versions available. 

NKato > Sovande 01/07/2020 at 15:57

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 The low end torque on the Vic is still enough to blip the tires. I don't see it as "boring", just mellow.

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:57

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Go buy a C amaro then.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 15:58

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I move a lot more stuff on FB Marketplace than I do on CL lately.  I prefer CL, but the market ... pun intended ... has spoken.

jminer > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 16:02

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The rust free-ness of a California ranger is tempting but I'll still pass.

Sovande > NKato 01/07/2020 at 16:26

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I used to drive a 1983 Toyota Corolla with a 3 speed auto and 75hp that would chirp the tires. Certainly didn't make the car more interesting.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > NKato 01/07/2020 at 16:30

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Good point and i have been tempted by the few  swapped ones I’ve seen for sale, which is a testament to how easy it must be (that I’ve seen more than 1 for sale). That being said I don’t have the time, space or tools for a trans swap and if I were to go through that trouble it would be for something I REALLY like 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/07/2020 at 17:09

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Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box; religion is a smile on a dog.

Srsly: I’m a Chevy guy and I bought the Vic in too much haste.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Sovande 01/07/2020 at 17:11

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If you want to be pedantic  about it...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/07/2020 at 17:11

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Not for $1,300 and 42k miles.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher 01/07/2020 at 17:13

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CL has changed. Deep in scammers, and now, the $5 fee to post cars and services. Posting here today brought me the suggestion to consider FB Marketplace.

Jim Spanfeller > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 17:15

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Or that. That might actually be pretty cool. It would be extremely complicated, but definitely cool.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 18:20

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I haven’t sold anything worth more than a few hundred in a long time, so I don’t get a ton of scammers from CL. I just get ... nothing. There is no action on smaller items on CL anymore. Things that sat forever, I can sell on FB in a day or two. Sometimes in a couple of hours. It’s gotten to the point that I don’t even bother on CL. Which makes me strangely sad, but it is what it is.

Fun Cragslist fact:  I met my with through a personals ad I placed on CL.

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 18:26

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I should probably add that if you repaired or replaced the busted panels and gave the car a proper respray, it’d probably get you $4,000 or more.

It’s prime money-f lipping fodder.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher 01/07/2020 at 19:02

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Yeah; CL ain’t what it used to be.

Your Rally Roadmaster would have been a good donor car if I wanted V8/auto for Rusty, which is where it looks like that project might be going.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/07/2020 at 19:05

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I’ve been looking at the Vics and in my neighborhood, a good specimen, albeit with 200k miles, maxes out at $4,000. I have no body work skills and this one is a good sled and that’s about it. I could try to do something with the front clip, but then it would be ugliness with a front clip that doesn’t match and it’d look like just another beat-up Vic. Even if I wound up selling it at a loss, compared with the labor involved in making it look passably nice, I’d not be so much money behind.

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 21:25

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If t he doors and pillars aren’t damaged, you can easily swap the fender, hood, and header panel. They’re all held by a bunch of bolts. Two man job, and a guide on all the bolts, and you’re set.

I’m not kidding, it took me an afternoon to replace the busted fender, header panel and core support.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-queen-rises-1830364835

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/07/2020 at 22:04

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The dude I bought it from has offered me some parts...

The interior is also semi-gutted...

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 22:07

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Let me guess. Interior is missing rear seats and no center console - that's a pretty common state for p71s. What parts is he offering?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/07/2020 at 22:55

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I only asked him for the lights. Basic safety stuff. Just enough effort to try and get my money back out of it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/07/2020 at 22:58

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I could replace all the body parts but it would still look like a Frankencar.

GLiddy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/07/2020 at 23:05

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There’s plenty of room in the bed. Put the engine back there.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > GLiddy 01/07/2020 at 23:23

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You are the second person to suggest that.

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 00:11

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And? Most Vics are Franken cars anyway. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/08/2020 at 00:51

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My point, exactly. Why go to the trouble? Get it legal. Stop there.

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 04:40

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Your call, but I’d respect a repaired/replaced body panel Franken car more than one where the damage is just left for all to see.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/08/2020 at 11:54

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I enjoy philosophical car discussions such as this one. The car above is repaired to a far higher standard than I would personally be capable of accomplishing. Conversely, to get it to the point you’re showing would take me many hours. Many, many hours. In my situation, I have a $1,300 car with very low miles that’s worth most of that amount just as it sits. The ROI on my efforts just wouldn’t be there to try and make it look nice. Let the next guy do that after paying me something in the neighborhood of what I paid for the car. A 2010 Vic with only 43k miles is a fairly rare find, if I’m not mistaken.

At the same time, if I could find a husk of an early 80s (7th Generation) F-150, I’d have to Frankenstein the bed to make it the right length, but that’s always been my favorite F-150 of any generation and that would make a fun vehicle.

MM54 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 12:34

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The front subframe can come out of the p71, they’re a common swap, but the track width is probably way off. You then don’t need the stock inner fenders or any high-up suspension stuff, which could make the 4.6 fit in there, but they are (as you’ve found out) incredibly wide.

I don’t think the body swap is a practical or simple as it may sound; the ranger is smaller in every dimension and I fear you’d end up with two very chopped up cars and nothing fitting together.

My first suggestion would be to take more measurements and scheme out if the p71's subframe would fit well and enable the removal of Stuff to fit the engine in.

My second suggestion would be to sell or trade the vic for one that’s much older, rusty, and has a 5.0 in it :)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MM54 01/08/2020 at 13:46

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My second suggestion would be to sell or trade the vic for one that’s much older, rusty, and has a 5.0 in it :)

That’s a really good idea. I am irked with myself over this entire deal. I have that spectacular old ‘71 van sitting there and the guy who gave me the Ranger now says he has a 327 sitting around unused and if what I really want is to drift, why not go SBC/automatic in Rusty instead of straight-six? I just bought this Vic in too much of a hurry and I don’t think it was a bad buy, just I can’t use it as hoped and I need to pass it along.

I think I should register it, though, and drive it around so more people see it. That’ll be kind of fun, taking a Sawsall or a Wheel of Death and cutting out the bent bits.

Reply

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 15:37

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It’s a body on frame car. It’s not going to take you more than a day to do the fender and header panel (sans repainting).

I wish you luck on finding someone who's willing to put in the money and effort in a car that's decidedly low effort to begin with. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/08/2020 at 16:01

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Time will tell. I’ll see if I can get $1,500 for it. At 42,000 miles, I should have a decent shot at that , seems to me. It was silly of me to buy the thing in the first place.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 17:30

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My 17-year-old could use a car for going to school. Is it legal?

/not entirely serious

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 01/08/2020 at 17:32

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Yes it is / will be legal. Under all that ugly is a very good car. A good project for some kid.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 18:01

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How does this even happen?

NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 18:03

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I don't think it was silly, considering the goal you had in mind. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 01/08/2020 at 18:10

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That, my brother, is a very good question.

Also, whatever the emotional malaise that may overhang my NYC experience, dinner the last night was priceless. I keep thinking about that.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 01/08/2020 at 18:15

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I feel kind of silly and I am taking an approach to this car that keeps it a little bit silly. I am hopeful some exuberant young man will take it on as a project. In the meantime, I will use it to poke fun at myself and enjoy thunder runs up and down the local interstate. And if it doesn’t sell, and the right project presents itself, we could see a revamped Plan A. I think I’ll call it the Ugly Stick. Or The Crown Victim.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/08/2020 at 18:18

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It was. Definitely worth the price of admission.